Monday, September 22, 2008

Moron of the Month: Gerald Schroeder


Gerald Schroeder is "an MIT-trained scientist who has worked in both physics and biology", and now spends his time "melding" scientific theories with the Bible. Here he tries to reconcile the six literal 24-hour days of creation from Genesis with all that pesky scientific evidence showing that the universe is in fact billions of years old. He has a wacky theory involving general relativity and time-dilation effects that, according to him, proves both viewpoints are simultaneously true:

Once you come from Adam, the flow of time is totally in human terms. Adam and Eve live 130 years before having children! Seth lives 105 years before having children, etc. From Adam forward, the flow of time is totally human in concept. But prior to that time, it's an abstract concept: "Evening and morning." It's as if you're looking down on events from a viewpoint that is not intimately related to them.

Uh-huh...

Elsewhere, he states:

As a nuclear physicist who has served on the staff of MIT and as a member of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission, I have undertaken extensive research of the natural world in light of the Biblical account. My conclusion? I see no contradiction between them whatsoever.

It's amazing what lengths creationists will go to in order to reconcile scientific facts with what's written in their holy book. This guy is taking a fresh approach - just accept both sides of the argument and "meld" them together. I guess if you're going to believe all 1200 pages of nonsense in the Bible, a few extra pages of pseudo-scientific twaddle like that found on Gerald's website should be pretty easy to swallow.

66 comments:

Larro FCD said...

At least he's not a politician melding policy with fable. However, at least he's a scientist and probably understands science way more than the idiots that our running the US government. That's not to say I don't think he's not a "Moron of the Month". I'd like to see him debate Victor Stenger.

BTW, welcome to Mojoey's Atheist Blogroll.

Joshua Stein said...

What a f*ckwit. Just an incredible f*ckwit.

Thanks for that, Luke.

Anonymous said...

I don't see what the problem is. He's not even a creationist, and he doesn't bend science. I mean the guy obviously believes science, and if he's going to try to find a way to make sense of his religious views in light of science then what's the big deal? A lot of scientists to that.

Anonymous said...

Nothing wrong in this and everything he says makes sense.

Anonymous said...

You are simply a fool

NomadRip said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

I'm interested in an atiheist or agnositc scientist's response to the caluclations of Schroeder. If you want to make a point against this man, it's stronger to present arguments than to put him away as a madman. So if you have a url to a commentary on Schroeder by someone with authority, please leave it here.

Anonymous said...

Something like this http://www.talkreason.org/articles/schroeder.cfm

Brandonism said...

I am surprised that Schroeder is on this list. His theories are quite fascinating, but if you want to read really good arguments against it, read his peers responses to his equations. It seems that the latest Anthropological find of "Ardi" in Ethiopia will throw his calculations off a bit, so he has work to do.
Atheists are just as "Moronic" as "Creationists" because neither group really knows. How can you know without a doubt? Atheist even have their own organizations, soon they'll have their own terrorists. That's why I'm happy as an Agnostic, because I don't know. We know as much truth about God as we do about the Universe; Cosmology, Astrophysics, and similar disciplines are mostly theory. Even Einstein's, and Hawking's theories have been challenged in recent years. I think that trying to reconcile the more mythical aspects of the Bible (Biblical Archeology has corroborated much of the historical aspects) with Science seems natural to me. Man created God, and Man created Science, or did God create Science and Science created Man? Too Buddhist? Who knows? Hedge your bets, go Agnostic.

Anonymous said...

He's not a creationist. He believes in evolution and the Big Bang. So...this post doesn't belong on here. This blog should be re-named, "Adverse Cosmological Opinion Idiocy".

Anonymous said...

Gerald Schoeder is actually a fantastically brilliant physicist. The fact that you cannot comprehend his arguments does not justify putting him on your little blog. In fact, based on your "critique" I would consider putting your face up on the next instalment of "moron of the month".

NomadRip said...

Installment.

When pretending to sound intelligent by calling someone a moron, it doesn't help your position when you can't spell the big words right.

Anonymous said...

Tú si que sufres de idioicia.
Los argumentos de Gerald sobrepasan el entendimiento de tu raciocinio como la Ciencia supera tu propia superstición.
Aprende un poco, payaso.

Anonymous said...

DR. GERALD SCHROEDER taught physics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology for a period of seven years. (He earned his PhD in two fields: Earth and Planetary Sciences; and, Nuclear Physics at MIT as well.)

He has authored some 60 publications in peer-reviewed scientific journals and the results of his research have been reported in Time and Newsweek magazines, Scientific American, and newspapers from Boston to Adelaide, Australia.

As a consultant to the US Government, he participated in the formulation of nuclear non-proliferation treaties with the former Soviet Union. In this context he witnessed the detonation of six atomic bombs, at the US testing facility.

He has also acted as consultant to government agencies in Canada, the Peoples Republic of China, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, and Thailand.

Anonymous said...

Your blog keeps getting better and better! Your older articles are not as good as newer ones you have a lot more creativity and originality now keep it up!

Anonymous said...

this writer is an idiot. schroeder has a normal theory not changing science or the bible and it works its a good theory

jacobadenbaum said...

You're arguments would be much more effective if you didn't resort to ad hominem attacks. If you care to refute what he's saying, that's fine. But please don't call him an idiot and fail to back it up. Being a radical on one side is just as bad as being a radical on the other.

I will say that personally I found his articles fascinating, regardless of whether or not I agree with every point. I think that his arguments that science and religion can be reconciled are compelling and deserve further thought, rather than the blind and dogmatic attacks that you have posted.

boydstough said...

And your educational and professional backround is? Come on! At least he believes in God and provides a scientific explanation for it. You don't believe in God and have a blog. Nice.

Cate said...

Wow. 3 decades of education and research comes together in a fascinating and well supported theory and the erudite opposition responds with "uh-huh". Can we expect the next brilliant response from the teenage mind behind this blog to be "neener-neener"?

You are free to hate creationists. You are free to mock people. But you should be aware that this post makes you look like an absolute moron.

PS Nomadrip, your brainpower is also on display, buddy. You accuse "anonymous Christians" of getting offended. Schroeder is Jew. Why do you presume those defending him here are Christian? Pull up your trousers, Nomadrip, your biases are showing.

NomadRip said...

I should have said Creationists, you are right. I tend to lump all of the Judeo-Christian mythologies together, but I could see how that phrasing could be confusing, Cate.

I am not wearing any trousers, which would explain why my biases are showing.

Anonymous said...

I would appreciate more visual materials, to make your blog more attractive, but your writing style really compensates it. But there is always place for improvement

Anonymous said...

Look around you. Can ANYONE come up with a better explaniation that blends the Bible and science with what you see? I can't tell you where God came from but it is evident what He has done and it is scientifically based. Some of us hopefully will receive the whole story first hand someday.

Morag tohamy said...

This is directed to the writer of this blog.

We get it that you're an atheist. That doesnt mean you can go around and make fun of people. I'd prefer to live with pleasent, peaceful religious people over unrespectful atheists like you.

Did you ever try looking for the truth? I know you havnt. Cause if you did, you'd find it. Its not so high in the sky, boy. It's inside you, and its called moral. Something everyone is born with, and dont have to be taught.

I've seen your posts on this blog. They're disgraceful and unrespectful towards people in this world. No matter what they are- their belief, color or gender, they deserve respect.

Its a shame people act like you.

Jared said...

Haha, and I bet you kids think Darwin was an atheist almost as much as you think Dawkins is the smartest man in the world. Oh what toolish behavior that consumes your mindsets. You can't beat bias. Some of us are at least open about ours. So hide little ring worm, hide your doubts behind your hate because you know the more fingers you point and the more mud you throw the more correct you are. good ole' red face, good ole' red face.

Apophis said...

So let me break this down:

Gerald Schroeder uses three things to reach his conclusion:

1.) The scientifically accepted age of the universe.
2.) The scientifically accepted expansion factor during the Big Bang.
3.) The scientifically accepted mathematics for relativistic time dilation.

And out of this he gets 6 days. And he is not using any reference to the Bible or anything not obtained by scientific means. So what exactly is the problem? I mean it's not like someone who is not religious could have accidentally discovered the exact same thing.

Something tells me that the guy who picked him is in reality the "moron of the month." Just some reactionary atheist who doesn't like that someone has found a perfectly reasonable compatibilization between their science with their faith.

Apophis said...

I might add a question as well. In what way shape or form is Schroeder's view "Creationism?" lol It seems someone doesn't know what Creationism is.

Anonymous said...

An English Teacher/Scientist in Russia said... haha, this is quite entertaining : ) - Here we have a website wanting to whip up a whirlwind of controversial comments from dumb animal minds who are as blind and helpless as newborn, close-eyed puppies; but instead, what do we see?! A bunch of enlightened, mature minds immediately chasten the baby puppy-"SHUT UP." hahaha...how funny!

Hey little puppys! Please, by all means, countinue to create many more websites which we can invade and consume with intelligent ideas - like we did on this website; thanks for making it easier to show how ignorant unstudied minds are!

Hey everybody, this is not rocket science : ), just go and read a book, yeah? Well, actually it will probably be quite many books, but the point is - study! Any man in the history of the world, who was at one time silly and ignorant as a young boy, say under 30 years old, and who craved the truth about life and existence, normally proceeded to become through study and revelation, an intelligent man, a spiritual man, a humble man, a quiet man, a loving man, and a man submitted to a higher authority. NOT normally were and are the people who take the true path of fantasy and end up like Dawkins, or the author of this website - a blind, bitter, and whiny person who only annoys the rest of us. Dawkins is a little different though, because people like him knowlingly lie to the world because accepting and surrendering to a higher authority would mean overcoming their human pride. Yes, it is just that simple.

FuchYaLife said...

So... this guys staff @ MIT and a member of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission.. you on the other hand are...? Some shit-talking blogger living in your moms basement talking smack about anyone who believes in creation.

Wow, go wipe the pizza pocket stains off your wife beater, the dried jizz crusts off your shorts and try leaving the house and getting laid for once loser.

Anonymous said...

Maybe take the time to actually read his book. He doesn't bend science or religion to fit the other, he just shows how each one actually proves the other. Guess for you ignorance is bliss.

Anonymous said...

Mixing science and the bible results in an EPIC FAIL. And this guy tries to force his religious beliefs onto science. EPIC FAIL.

Anonymous said...

Tries to force his beliefs onto science? Um, is science a person? Did science get its feelings hurt? Is he trying to convert people, like other scientists to his ideas? No. Amazingly, unlike some hardcore atheists I know he doesn't proselytize. Neither does Judaism by the way. We don't knock on doors, we don't shove our religion down your throats and if you want to convert, we make it difficult so you'll realize people like to commit genocide against people like us.

As someone previously mentioned, Schroeder is a Jew. In fact, he is an Orthodox Jew. A member of the right-wing version of Judaism. And in Judaism, even the most right-wing Orthodox Judaism, doesn't believe in Creationism even if a very small number of adherents do.

If you knew anything about Schroeder, the #1 is he isn't a Creationist. The small number of Creationists within Judaism BAN his books. The rest of us ignore these people and feel embarrassed for them believing in Creationism when our religion does not. Clearly something they picked up from some other religion.

Jews don't take the Torah, the Bible, the Five Books of Moses, LITERALLY. We have something called the Talmud and the Oral Tradition.

Perhaps, get your religions and your facts straight before you attack them. But I'm guessing you can't tell the difference between any of us, huh? We all look the same to you.

Anonymous said...

I met him. He is a very smart good man. How dare you post this. What have you done but make some crappy little blog? You are a sad little person.

Hilary said...

It is really sad when an atheist's argument resorts to the kind of insults that I read here. I am a christian and I believe that it is not possible to reason or have a reasonable discussion with someone whose main type of arguing is insult. When a person resorts to insult it is always because they can find nothing else to say to further their argument. This blog does no favours to the majority of atheist friends I have who are reasonable and kind towards those who they disagree with and with whom I often have interesting discussions as such discussions are based on mutual respect. Sadly this blog is neither respectful or kind. I will pray for you.

Rob said...

I've listened to a couple of Dr. Schroeder's lectures on www.simpletoremember.com which is a site with articles and lectures on Jewish topics. He sounds like a very smart and likable guy. He takes both Torah and Science seriously. He's not a creationist -- at least not in a fundamentalist sense. I have no idea if his math works out, but I really enjoyed listening to his novel attempt at using relativity to reconcile biblical chronology with cosmological chronology.

Anonymous said...

Since when did "uh-huh" become a rebuttal argument?

Joe from Mesa AZ said...

As an engineer myself (educated as an atheist in a former communist dictatorship) I took the time & effort TO VERIFY mathematically Dr.Schroeder's reasoning/ conclusions, and... THEY ARE CORRECT! Following closely this debate one has to conclude that the "evolutionists" are turning more and more into religious fanatics, and - like all fanatics - when running out of arguments they tend to become violent, in this case (foul) language-wise. Whoever is unable to pursue a dialog in civilized terms is abrogating his/her right to participate in the debate.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the comment above. You can't seriously call this man a moron. This blog thereby lost his part in the discussion

Anonymous said...

Ummm this "moron" would school you and the rest of the atheist armchair community. Just because you don't argue with his views does not mean you he is a moron. This man would intellectually slap you angry little atheist around. He is a genius, you are some random blogger on the internet.

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The idiot of all months is the administrator-owner of this blog. We want him to put on his photo. Only an idiot of his size is able, instead of presenting scientific arguments to insult.

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Anonymous said...

According to Schroeders tries to prove evolution is driven by a mysterious force (which is clearly god for all of you claiming he isn't a creationist) because the statistical improbability of life forming by random chance is incredibly small. He claims that the potential combinations of amino acid combinations are so vast that it would take longer than the worlds existence to test them all. By his logic you'd have to buy 16,000,000 lottery tickets to win a lottery that has the odds of 16 million to one. That isn't science-its using numbers to mislead stupid people about how probability works.

Anonymous said...

All of you claiming "athiests need to pick up books" and "schroeder uses science and logic to learn objectively" clearly haven't looked into critiques on schroeder's work...and quite possibly any of schroeder's work too...

Anonymous said...

Shouldn't atheists hope that God exists, even if they do not believe? If the lack of proof for something proves its nonexistence, then atheists will have to also deny Freewill exists. And if Freewill does not exist, then what's the point of getting upset about the religious when they had no say in the matter? It was inevitable. It's beating a dead horse. Instead of getting upset with believers, take your beef up with the Big bang, and the way it just so happened to "pop", that resulted in your current frustration.This is why atheism ridiculous.

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Anonymous said...

C'mon folks, how do you expect to be taken seriously when your comments consist mainly of name calling. This tactic only suggests a lack of intelligence.

Anonymous said...

Why does your side always seem to insult us, and imply we are brain dead idiots. LOL

Anonymous said...

For the athiests and believers in God alike: when you die, you will get what you believe. Athiests will not have the face of God to behold, and believers will get to heaven. By the way, the definition of hell is a place without God. The argument could be made some have already made their hell on earth. When you can see beyond the mechanistic theories that modern science seems to hold up, then maybe the next time somebody says 'creation' there will be a little more meaning for you.

- An Apologist.

Anonymous said...

PHD in Physics from MIT. Yup, he's just an idiot - and leftist atheists are so mature.

Anonymous said...

PHD in Physics from MIT. Yup, he's just an idiot - and leftist atheists are so mature.

David Ben-Abraham said...

Dear Professor Alan Cooper, of the Australian Center for Ancient DNA, in an article entitled, "Ancient Europeans Mysteriously Vanished 4,500 Years Ago," http://www.livescience.com/28954-ancient-europeans-mysteriously-vanished.html was reported as saying: “What is intriguing is that the genetic markers of this first pan-European culture, which was clearly very successful, were then suddenly replaced around 4,500 years ago, and we don't know why. Something major happened, and the hunt is now on to find out what that was.”

It seems to me that these skeletons and remains are more likely those of people who settled in Europe before the flood of waters covered the earth, as described in the Gilgamesh tablets. This flood actually happened, according to Jewish tradition, some 4,118 years ago. Afterwards, the earth was resettled by Noah's descendants: Japheth, Shem and Ham. All nations spread out from Asia Minor, precisely where the ship that carried their forbears alighted.

As for the early Europeans being similar to Near Eastern and Anatolian people when they suddenly disappeared at that time from Europe, I see no real contradiction with those who arrived there later. The early Europeans had genetic DNA that resembled more closely Near Eastern and Anatolian people, insofar that ALL were from one family - the progeny of Adam > Seth and/or Cain. Afterwards, that is to say, after the Great Deluge, Europe was then inhabited by the progeny of one of the sons of Noah, whose DNA slightly differed.

Dr. Wolfgang Haak, in the same article has said: “We have established that the genetic foundations for modern Europe were only established in the Mid-Neolithic, after this major genetic transition around 4,000 years ago. This genetic diversity was then modified further by a series of incoming and expanding cultures from Iberia and Eastern Europe through the Late Neolithic.”

Without realizing it, both Professors have confirmed the biblical account of the flood!

Anonymous said...

Joe from Mesa and everyone who stand in defence of this man, Schroeder... Really get your fact straight.
First of all it's not 15 billion years, but about 13.8 from the big bang; not a lot is clear about planck's time state of the universe too, so I think everything about tracing a comparison between genesis and science is a willing forcing which is unfalsifiable in a scientific way... In the form "i want to make 15 become 6, how's that possible?".
Still just see Vic Stenger and Mark Perakh's criticism of his "work".

Anonymous said...

It is interesting that you call Schroeder a moron, but you have nothing to refute his argument. Look in the mirror if you are looking for Morons. BTW - Schroeder is a Jew and he is brilliant. I met him about a month ago in Jerusalem and he knows his stuff. He debated Richard Dawkins some years ago on the radio, too bad we don't have that recorded - we will see who the moron is then.
This blog and your ridicule is one of the biggest proof of the ignorance and fanaticism behind those that believe the Darwinian evolution religion. BTW the same religion that justified the killing of Jews as lower species by Hitler, the killing of Russians by Stalin and the killing of Chinese by Mao. All three were evolutionist like you fool!

Joe Giuffre said...

Fuck you, you brainless turd. The bible is truth so fuck you, you lying atheist cunt. You are the one that is all nonsense, you little heathen bullshit bitch.

TruthPlease said...

Hmm
The author appears to be a real moron. A TROLL infact. Ignore him please.

But on the other hand without talking about religion, I would like atheists and theists alike should read this article:

http://www.talkreason.org/articles/schroeder.cfm

and then decide on his credibilty as a Physicist.

If you look at the discussion links at the bottom of the above mentioned page, you will find Dr. Schroeder's aversion to discussion on the points raised.

Though I am not a physicist, I have completed graduation in Electronics and Instrumentation. So I believe that Mark Perakh raises some valid questions and I would like to get Dr. Schroeder's reply to those questions.

If you believe that the Doctor is indeed a good person, then please ask him to give a fitting reply to all the questions raised by Mark.

Regards

Anonymous said...

It's the god of the gaps fallacy. If I were MIT I'd ask for his certificate back!

it's like he goes science explains this fully, science explains this fully, science explains this fully, science explains this fully,science explains this fully, ah god did it!

If he asserts he KNOWS god did it, then as a scientist, he MUST be able to PROVE god did it!

Not only does this jerk deserve moron of the month, I would give him moron of the year!

He worked on nuclear weapons - I wouldn't let im near sharp objects!

Anonymous said...

Yup. And here's a link for the review of the book that Mark Perakh wrote, the guy who criticized Shroeder. When I see people trying to undermine one's credibility, not through pointing out the logical leap in an argument, but through nitpicking details and other fallacies, I see red flags go up. Obviously Mark Perakh is good at doing that.

http://metanexus.net/book-review/review-mark-perakhs-unintelligent-design-david-j-turell

T. MacKey said...

excuse me, just found your blog after many years it's been commented on>>anyway, y'all left out the rest of
Gerald's thesis and it does explain so that your jumping to conclusions and mockery is just stupid>>well, not scholarly...check it out for yourselves please & don't just react to the uneducated & dismissive rhetoric that encourages you to not research for yourself...here, read what Gerald himself relates and with an open mind that is willing to learn things rather than follow along like a good dog..thanks..
http://www.geraldschroeder.com/AgeUniverse.aspx

YArpwarSongs

Chris Malan said...

Why are the atheists nearly always so full of spite and bitterness?

At least the language and tone of believers are streets ahead of that of the atheists. And the atheists very often sound downright ignorant.

Anonymous said...

Really? If you actually Read the book he never says "it's God" he simply says that it could be. It's funny, about 700 years ago you would have told me the earth was flat because most scientist our learned men said so. I just find the books and science interesting. If course I'm a theist, if you couldn't figure that out, stop reading here.. I love looking at both sides because contrary to popular beliefs, religious people can believe in science too. There is, historically speaking, a lot of error in science. We believe the "facts"until knew facts displace the old. You know what is even a stranger thing then the belief in God?? The fact that we all have wasted time we could have been using to experience real life to argue over something we have no real understanding of. Good day to you all

YarpwarSongs said...

T. MacKey said...

excuse me, just found your blog after many years it's been commented on>>anyway, y'all left out the rest of
Gerald's thesis and it does explain so that your jumping to conclusions and mockery is just stupid>>well, not scholarly...check it out for yourselves please & don't just react to the uneducated & dismissive rhetoric that encourages you to not research for yourself...here, read what Gerald himself relates and with an open mind that is willing to learn things rather than follow along like a good dog..thanks..
http://www.geraldschroeder.com/AgeUniverse.aspx

YArpwarSongs
April 27, 2015 at 11:30 PM

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Chris Malan said...

I wonder how the academical qualifications of this blogger will stack up against that of Gerald Schroeder. There is nothing on the page to tell who wrote this nonsense. Is it Mojoey? If so, Trump won, suck it up. The dull light of low intelligence shines brightly from the rubbish written by this blogger.

Anonymous said...

Check out this Ex-Orthodox Jew blog. Schroeder has twisted both science and the Bible and Jewish commentators to force fit science and the bible. http://altercockerjewishatheist.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-science-of-god-schroeder-chapter-1.html

Pichon Kamikaze said...

He is a creationist!
He said it himself.